What if income didn't exist?

Home Forums Archived (Inactive) Forums Leap Day LD – General Discussion What if income didn't exist?

This topic contains 3 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Silverthorn 6 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #11120

    qonen

    After reading raetonycass’s post in another thread about how income is too slow and not fun now, I was about to reply that making it faster still doesn’t make it fun, when I had a crazy thought: What if income didn’t exist as we know it? We’ve seen a few examples of this, where a map has enough gold initially to solve the map. Examples include the tutorial levels as well as the single player maps when they were available. They were fun! The biggest concern in my mind is that they were farmable and had a threat to be a tedious grind. So, what if a middle ground was taken, and in a multi-player context? The map could come with a large amount of initial gold, almost enough to solve the map if full of players built with perfect efficiency. Under normal circumstances if this large amount of gold was applied to massive income generation, it could all be ripped up after a few hours to solve the boss without difficulty. That isn’t fun, so get rid of income entirely! This hypothetical map is too hard to solve without more resources, so trickle gold to all players or have some other mechanism to make the map gradually easier over time. Solutions within the first day would require heroic effort from a legendary team. Solutions after three days could be typical. Finally, solutions after a week could be similar to they are now where gold is not really important. Is this structure appealing at all to others, perhaps not for every map, but for some?

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    The thoughts I was going to post in the other thread, that prompted the idea:

    Some of my favorite moments in the game happened when I had insufficient gold to build what I had in mind. Rather than giving up or waiting for income, I tinkered with my setup to get things to work with less gold (or equivalently fewer fire towers). After the resulting “aha!” moments, I learned better approaches to build certain things, and I wouldn’t have experienced that if I wasn’t constrained in the first place. Now even when I have ample gold and space, it is fun to further refine those methods. For example, it is straightforward to make a gunship or wine of joy with just four factories, yet I see many people that use nine factories. I was annoyed that hair elixir seemed to take more than four factories, but after another “aha” moment, I crafted one with just three factories!

    So ultimately, that is how I find challenge in the game: by imposing it upon myself. An expert map has enough space to put down the 40 factories necessary to make shadow armor if you don’t reuse any factories. I see it all the time, or close to it, so space available in a map is not a strong constraint. Even then, apart from space, the only other mechanism to promote efficient solutions is gold, both on the income side and the building cost side. That mechanism feels quite loose already, so buffing income generation would further weaken one of the few challenges in the game now.

    #11130

    dornbeast

    Wouldn’t this take away from the randomness of the maps, to the point where the perfect solution is “Step A, Step B, Step C, We Win” done over and over?

    Or, if the randomness is maintained, wouldn’t the initial setup then be the point? “Yeah, I got lucky once, beat Spirit of The Fallen Warrior on this completely easy setup, it took a day and a half. Never did that well again, but we got the speed record.”

    #11156

    crisofer

    I think you would have to find some way to ensure that someone doesn’t just come into a game, place towers everywhere, and do nothing else. What income does give you is a way to slow the spread of towers.

    That said… I wonder what it would be like if everyone only had the stout (small) towers, but they were considerably cheaper.

    #11164

    Silverthorn

    It’s an interesting idea, and I certainly agree with the basic premise that making income gain faster again won’t make things more fun again.
    If specialized maps are coming (ie., same map with different restrictions, fog of war etc.) then by all means let us have this as a variant as well, should be fun in that context.

    But as the standard system, please no and please never.
    Imo it would be a step towards a more static puzzle game (along with snapshopts and the planned rewind/forward option to decouple individual leap days from server leap day). And that’s the kind of game that bores me to tears, personally, especially when they have a similar basic premise to Leap Day (have a number of items with specific functions working by certain rules and are to assemble them into a system to achieve an objective).
    It’s the type of game I’ve observed holds a lot of appeal for brainier people, though. Also I’m a naysayer by nature, so this to be taken with a grain of salt.

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