This topic contains 14 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by joeblowglitch 6 years ago.
October 2, 2013 at 11:01 am #15802
I am in a Cougarina game, where the star ratings are obviously based on completion times from when the map was considerably easier. One and two days is practically impossible.
I feel a bit cheated that by the time an advanced item (glowing shield, writ, etc.) is completed, the gold chest drop rate has already dropped considerably. I’m not sure how anyone will be able to level up to level 5 with such thresholds.
My assumptions here are that the star ratings are still based on previous completion times, and that chest drop rates are based on the stars.
Thanks!October 2, 2013 at 12:05 pm #15810
Seconded. Some of these times are completely out there as compared to when recipes were much easier.October 2, 2013 at 12:11 pm #15812
I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments. The new recipe games are much more difficult and multiple stars are just now achievable. In addition, the top items for the altars (e.g. the writ) are usually not built and delivered until the last cycle of the game. It would take many multiples of the game to get a golden good drop for that itemOctober 2, 2013 at 1:03 pm #15815
I’m not so sure it’s impossible. I’m in a Cougarina game right now, and we cut production to farm golden Arm Parties for one of ours (to hit L5 before the kill). At the point we killed production (around midnight last night), I had around 90 million gold and we were near the 24 hr mark. At least one other person should be close to my gold, and everyone else on the map is probably in the 60-70 million range.
This was from starting it up Monday night, then making only a few quick adjustments in the morning, and on lunch. If we’d been tweaking the production as it progressed (eg, started the map on a Saturday morning or such), I think we could have (barely) finished it within the 22hr 18 min cutoff for 5 stars.
Also, bear in mind that the map will get much easier as recipes are leveled. If the star requirements get reduced at this point, they will become absolutely trivial down the road. Writ of Seduction L5 cuts the Glowing Shield, which is easily the hardest component (and honestly is kind of like an easier Absinthe already). It took us easily under an hour last night to get Arm Party completion. Can you imagine the level with Writ L30, where literally the only other items you need to produce are a Choco Statue, Luxury Food, Sticky Buns, and Sweet Wine? With shrines active, I’d imagine any strong player could probably get all four of those set up in 30-45 min, solo. Divided up among a group where each person did just one item, it’s probably closer to 10-15 min.October 2, 2013 at 1:20 pm #15816
I am only suggesting that apples be compared with apples. If people get to writ level 5 too quickly, then the drop rates of those items can be reduced accordingly. Having inaccurate/obsolete star times is not a very good way of achieving that objective (and things like loot drops and skill points are likely impacted too).
If one or two days is the average completion time for Cougarina, then so be it. I just don’t like apples being compared with oranges :)
October 2, 2013 at 1:40 pm #15818
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by joeblowglitch.
I suppose this topic leads to some interesting scenarios. With advanced item drop rates being tied to star ratings, it will become increasingly more difficult to level those items up.
If times were reset today, the people who who play the first bunch of games will have an easier time leveling these items up. If those same players play the same map again with a L5 or L15 upgrade of writ or glowing shield, they will complete the map much more quickly which will reduce the star thresholds. This, in turn, will make it harder for players who play that map for the first time in a month or a year from now to level up those same items.
This doesn’t change my request for reseting the star timers when recipes are changed, but I wonder how the idea of drop rates being tied to stars will work out in the long run.
October 2, 2013 at 2:31 pm #15822
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by joeblowglitch.
I believe that star thresholds are no longer dependent on the clear times of past players. If I recall correctly, there was an official post to that effect two or three builds ago.
This should be fairly easy to check. Just hop in a Sad Uncle game after Cougarina is done, then check the star ratings. Give it a little time, then check again. Sad Uncle games cycle quickly enough that if the ratings are indeed dynamic, the shift should be visible relatively quickly. That said, unless I’m mistaken, the 5 star cutoff has been 3hr 25min for quite some time now (and 4 stars is 3hr 58min or something similar).
Given the recent influx of new players, the cutoff to make say, top 10% should have dropped quite a bit. There are games full of newbies which end up sitting for literally days until a veteran comes along and cleans it up. Every one of these brings down the average, and my group alone has seen at least 3-4 of them over the past couple days.October 2, 2013 at 3:09 pm #15823
By no longer dependent on the clear times of past players, do you mean they are supposedly static now? Hm, I don’t recall reading anything like that.
I haven’t seen the four or five stars for the Uncle change recently either, but I have seen definite variance in the two and three stars. I’ve also observed minute changes for other maps – in the Sophisto, until a few days back, the three stars was at 22 hours something, but now it’s under 22.
So I’m inclined to believe the dynamic is still the same as it was, though a bit confused why the days-long newbie games aren’t bringing down the four and five stars in the Uncle at all.October 3, 2013 at 10:28 am #15884
Yes, I was under the impression that they were changed to static thresholds. Perhaps I was mistaken? I hadn’t noticed any changes on the maps I’ve played, but honestly hadn’t been paying much attention. Maybe people can just post the cutoffs from their games so we can reference back?
From my Cougarina game:
5* = 22 hrs 18 min
4* = 1 day 12 min
3* = 2 days 2 hrs 23 min
2* = 5 days 19 hrs 14 minOctober 3, 2013 at 10:55 am #15889
The dynamic difficulty for the stars is still in place. If excellent players are still completing these maps quickly, the 5 star times will still be short. I’d expect a burst of new players to mainly impact the lower star count times.
There’s likely some lag as the system gathers games, so we may need to tweak the window we are looking at for data gathering so it is responsive.October 3, 2013 at 11:33 am #15895
Do the requirements for the star rating ever get longer? Or do they just get shorter whenever you beat a level with that star rating?October 3, 2013 at 12:53 pm #15903
Good to know, thanks Dan. I must have remembered incorrectly. I guess the display just changed, not the method.
@crisofer: Assuming it’s still percentile based, the cutoffs should get shorter or longer depending on the time people take for new completions. Any star level equal to or lower than what you beat should get shorter, while any you failed to beat should get longer. In other words, a 3 star win should make the 2 and 3 star cutoffs shorter, while the 4 and 5 star cutoffs get longer. Note that this change won’t necessarily be immediately apparent, even setting aside delays of a result collection interval.
Any finish will increase the results pool. Let’s say a given map has 100 completions. Being in the top 10% means you have one of the 10 fastest times. As more people play the game, the number of top X slots increases. Let’s say another 100 completions occur. At this point, the pool has reached 200 games played, so being in the top 10% means having one of the 20 fastest times.
Whenever a new game is completed quickly, it will push all slower Top X scores down. Someone setting a new first place record will push every completion down by one. Let’s say the 19th fastest game took 23 hours and the 20th fastest took 24 hours. In this case, the old 19th fastest game becomes the new 20th fastest and since it took 23 hours instead of 24, the window gets shorter. The fact that the pool and the ranking both change with each map completion complicates this a bit more than I’ve described above, but that should cover the general idea.
If the top scores get pushed down faster than new slots are added, times get shorter. If slots are added faster than the top scores get pushed down, times get longer. Note that the more map completions you have, the more it takes to add slots. This is part of why beating a map won’t necessarily have an immediate impact on the cutoffs.
Edit: Corrected name from cristofer to crisofer
October 3, 2013 at 1:05 pm #15906
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Delha.
Ah okay. I just wasn’t sure what Daniel meant when he said that new players will mainly impact the lower star count times, but I guess it does make sense.
I’m just wondering if it’s based on an average of all games completed within a given percentile range, or if it’s just the time of the game that falls at the threshhold range.October 3, 2013 at 3:33 pm #15912
I would expect that it’s the latter. I don’t have any proof or anything, but it seems the most reasonable to me.
In fairness, I should mention that my prior post was all guesswork as well, but I think I’m making only reasonable assumptions here. While there could be additional mechanics in play, (like say, some number of scores from the very top and bottom get dropped from the pool once a week/month), the baseline system is really the most part.October 3, 2013 at 4:00 pm #15913
FYI, the times from my (still active after 10 day long) Cougarina game are the same as Delha’s. So the “responsive”-ness that Daniel mentions may indeed need to be tweaked.
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