This topic contains 17 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by leapaubepine 6 years, 4 months ago.
June 7, 2013 at 12:31 pm #11409
Recipes have changed. Pink Flamingos require one Mana Orb and one Absinthe now, and the recipe for Absinthe is much more complex. Your earnings may have gone down, depending on what you were making.June 7, 2013 at 12:33 pm #11415
It was kind of weird that these changes occurred mid-game. We were close to winning our game, but then the Fire Ring and Flamingo recipes changed on us.June 7, 2013 at 12:43 pm #11419
If you don’t read this forum, then you will probably be pretty upset when you next login. I do read this and I’m still fed up.June 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm #11421
My apologies. We had a system for handling preservation that didn’t handle this case but should be good going forward.
JJune 7, 2013 at 1:11 pm #11425
I am just sudying the new recipes, they look awsome, thank you very much for the good Job ! :)June 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm #11427
It’s been asked before, but is the initial distribution/density of resources going to be revisited any time soon?
IMO, all starting locations should have the same earning potential (applied against some space vs. resource scarcity formula) within their starting boundaries. Nobody should be at a disadvantage.
Somehow, it doesn’t feel that way now. It seems that we are playing with resource allocations that are still geared toward 3 input and large factories.
Granted, this is my first game with these new recipes…but my undefeated record in forum posts tells me that I’m correct :DJune 7, 2013 at 1:34 pm #11429
@Joe: I think you are correct that the distribution balance has not kept pace with the recipe changes. We’ll fix it up once we have the new system in place. We probably won’t revisit it until then since it will all be throw-away work and we’d like to get us all back to the meat of the game.
JJune 7, 2013 at 1:57 pm #11439
I really enjoy new recipes, things seems a little bit more difficult though (less income for more complexity)… I love it !!! For the first time this games starts to feel what i have always expecetd it should be :)
But yes, i completely agree with Joe, most of the medium recipes needs the 4 resources, so we should be able to have access to all of them quite early ^^June 7, 2013 at 5:10 pm #11461
The new recipes are amazing! Thank you developers!June 7, 2013 at 11:28 pm #11469
This latest update feels like you took all the broken recipes from before–that were tuned for 3&5 factories and weren’t working–tossed them into a sack, shook them about, and dumped them into the game (including in-progress games) with no further thought.
This is an honest question and isn’t meant to be flippant in any way: Do you actually play the game you’re developing? It really feels like you guys spend zero time in-game with how your posts read.June 8, 2013 at 12:20 am #11473
Kheldar, i find you really hard with the dev on this one. These new recipes are really interesting and i don’t find that they have been made without any thought.
In example : Window + Crystal = spyglass + gunpowder = rowboat + gunpowder = gunship. It really make sense to me. Moreover it is an interesting path, that you can build with only 3 basic goods. Much appreciated when you start on a low food area. I really think they did test it quite a lot before adding it to the game.
I find that the game is more interesting now than it was with the 3 and 5 factories…
Just a note : I just want to point out that there is not any way to build anything correct if you don’t have any wood on your starting ground. I think something should be done quite quickly to change that.
June 8, 2013 at 5:13 am #11482
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by leapaubepine.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by leapaubepine.
@leapaubepine: Thanks for the thoughts. We will be playing some of the more major reworkings internally by Monday we hope and, if it feels right, we’ll be looking to get a more balanced system out as soon as possible.
@keheldar: That’s a fair question. The simple answer is yes but it varies. The more complex and boring answer is we try to balance keeping the experiment of beta and the community going with getting the more involved pieces completed. The same goes for posting. We attempt to be responsive while not multi-tasking our time away. If and when we get the game out of beta and it is successful enough, we should be able to afford more dedicated community support. But we aren’t there yet!
As Dan mentioned, the latest change is an experiment that may help some of the current issues and will definitely inform how we tweak the more major incoming changes. I do personally apologize for the tweak hitting existing games. We try to not do such things and we spend quite a bit of the time working around the existing in-flight games (and even old observer links reallly). This is both so we can keep something of an active community and so we can discover holes in our ability to robustly make these changes by the time we leave beta (and it’s just nicer to folks).
One thing that surprises people is how much change we will make in an beta. To us, the game is not at all in a completed state at this point and is in active development. Beta is really the beginning of our figuring out how to bring it home. The alternative is really to be holed up for a much longer time and then just say “here ya go world”! We’ve all done that as developers and it is a fairly broken model where innovation is a rare beast. Of course, what we are doing *is* somewhat slower going development (again, back-compat and community support) but we would not gain the insights from the community necessary without having it out there. And this community has been mind-blowingly awesome in its depth of perception about the game.
That said, this is not for everyone. We will make some big shifts and those can be painful when you’re just trying to enjoy the game and the game has a certain “design inertia” already. Also, some of the shifts just suck (seemed like a good idea at the time!) either altogether or as stepping stones towards something that will work. Recipes in particular play into a lot of different connected pieces and there is only so far we can go with a tweak here and there before we have to scramble the whole thing.
If you choose not to follow along right now, we certainly appreciate your giving it a go and all your feedback and we hope you will give it another try when we exit beta or follow along on our Twitter feed at @LeapDayGameNews and check it out when something interests you. Or, alternatively, keep telling us how you feel and we’ll keep working toward making it a cohesive, original, engaging experience that holds together in all the ways a great game does. Again, thanks a ton for the help.
JJune 10, 2013 at 10:46 am #11628
Thanks for that @colemanpants.
I think maybe the difficulty I am having is not so much about this change or that one, but accepting that the game I started playing and loved is not the game now.
I find the recipes neat, but (as always) I never have enough time, space or money to build them. So I grind out some money so I don’t get locked out of contributing something.
When I started you could setup and come back in a day make a couple changes and stretch towards the boss. You could fit this in as a fun part of your day.
Now in a day or two some bosses are surrounded by more active players and I don’t have enough free time to spend checking and tweaking to get optimum output to be there.
I abandoned two games today (3 but I the first was just frustration, so I went back to try again). I’m not sure when was the last game I abandoned (and didn’t immediately regret and return).
I don’t want this to be the end for me. But part of me knows I can start another game right now, but odds are I’ll quit again.
So I will watch for the launch, start the occasional game and wish everyone well. If you see me in a game say “Hi”, and I will try to lend a hand where I can.
Cheers!June 10, 2013 at 12:13 pm #11632
What toque says about the boss surrounded by actives and finished asap in general may be a not quite intended consequence of the time-based star goals (and, of course, from the time we had the first massive recipe overhaul to the latest implementation, everything was just so easy that rushing was also easy, thus shortening the required star times, etc.)
I’m a pretty active player usually, but there’s been maps where I thought I could just play around and try things for a day or two, then came back after day 1 and the thing was finished.
Some maps, for the fourth or fifth star, now have a goal of under 24 hours, so can’t really blame the people who do this, either. I do it too when I want to go for the star and am sure I’ve frustrated other players with this on occasion.
Err, but yeah. When we still had a set time to finish a map, people were generally more relaxed within that timeframe and sometimes waited around for players who said they couldn’t be there a lot, but wanted to contribute. Just something to consider, maybe.
Thanks, toque, for sharing your soapbox space :P
Do you still love these changes, now that a few days have passed? If you do, maybe you could help me expand my viewpoint here?
What I miss most right now is any sort of linearity – I mean, items that are on the same level, or used to be on the same level, are now used to make each other, and not always in a logical or intuitive manner (whiskey -> chair -> jewelry box?!?), and they are artificially made less than an equal item (just observe how stone and fire ring go into the sundial on completely different levels).
Then you have items where one side of production is a lot bigger than the other side, ie the item is totally lopsided.
Then sometimes the same item is put into another item SEVERAL TIMES, just as in your example with the gunship (needs gunpowder at different stages). It means that you’ll likely have to put up two factories making the exact same item, completely separate from one another. Am I being too stuck up? Are you just more relaxed in the face of chaos in general? ;)
The second thing really bothering me is how now an insanely massive factory chain is required for any worthwhile items. Last night I tried to build one (one! not three! or four!) rock hammers – value 1.2K gold – with two firetowers expansion, all required base materials present and about 200K gold left to put into it.
I couldn’t. It was not humanly possible for me in that area and with that amount of gold. And the worst part of it, trying to figure it out wasn’t a whole lot of fun, because it felt so unfair and needlessly hard. What’s your thoughts on the number of factories required and the big amounts of gold required, doesn’t that bother you at all? If not, why not? I wish I could look on this more appreciatively because I’m sure it took a lot of blood and sweat to create.June 10, 2013 at 2:44 pm #11646
@silverthorn : I can not exaclty explain why i love that, but i love that… I think that part of it is precisely due to the fact that everything is not exactly symmetrical. You have to explore, try, figure out… And sometimes, it is just not possible. I understand that this is a more difficult game, but before those changes (when we had 5 slot factories) nothing were really tricky to build (except armor, absinthe and sticky buns maybe), the only difficult point was that you always needed to accelerate these … statues !
Now everything require thinking and planification. You just go deep into the recipe to search exactly how you will be able to build this item. And you have to understand quickly that you will not be able to use this stone because the path that should deliver it will cross the railroad that goes to your king…
But yeah, the game is harder now, personnaly i like it, but maye it’s too much for people who just want to have a break after work. For example not everyone wants to spend all their evenning building 2 birthday cake while having a lot of work to do (like i did…). But how satisfying it is :)
Do you want to sse it ?
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