This topic contains 46 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Silverthorn 6 years ago.
September 5, 2013 at 11:19 am #14875
Over the next week, we’ll be rolling out some changes
– Most shoppes gets easier or more valuable as they upgrade. Previously some recipes got more complex or required higher volumes of goods. The trade off wasn’t worth it so folks were avoiding upgrading those recipes. Hopefully upgrading is more worth while.
– The big impact of this change is that many lower level recipes are going to be harder. In general, they require volume instead of variety so you can focus on making efficient pipelines, not just adding more factories.
– You should see the new recipes only in new maps.
– Later in the week we’ll also be trying out a new shorter tutorial. Though it is not readily apparent to long term players, the single biggest issue facing Leap Day currently is the player experience during the very first day. Ideas and suggestions are welcome.
We’ll keep watching the stats and the comments on recipes and doing further tweaks as issues arise. Don’t be shy about bringing up problems. :-)
All the best,
Danc.September 5, 2013 at 11:38 am #14877
I’m a brand new player so take my feedback with a grain of salt, but the factory changes sound amazing for me. I ended up making super efficient paths in my two games that I never felt that I needed to expand with factories. If I can keep my pipelines efficient while adding in factories, it’s going to be awesome.
Are we not able to make our own game? I tried making a game and it seemed I was only able to join someone else’s game.
Thanks!September 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm #14879
I thought something went a bit buggy for me when I saw some of those recipes. Ore is 1 wood and 4 stone?! Level 0 Bracelet is just 2 gems.
Now you really do need to level up before attempting Jones, level 0 Flamingo is 2 absinthe and 2 mana orbs, and level 5 is still 2 absinthe but 1 mana orb.September 5, 2013 at 1:10 pm #14881
Cake of Pain
I’d advise holding off on Mr Jones for a bit….September 5, 2013 at 2:58 pm #14882
I tried playing again (I know that it’s slightly before the patch), but the maps don’t feel suitable for the 3×3 shops. They’re just too big – they don’t make routing challenging, they make it impossible for a lot of setups.
Also, it still doesn’t feel at all challenging. Due to the size of the shops and the depth of the recipe tree, it’s not a matter of clever routing, it’s a matter of whether or not there is enough space.
Also, shops ability to only pick up specific goods actually makes routing a joke since you can just toss shops down to filter out bad good from a path.
Even good that are low on the tech tree take way too many shops chained together. I was trying to make a fire ring, and the lembas required 4 shops to build before merging it into the fire ring. It just wasn’t possible unless I wanted to wait for a lot more money to buy more space. It just wasn’t routable without more space.September 6, 2013 at 3:49 am #14892
Here’s my Initial impressions of the recipes, prior to trying them out:
Wow this is a much better list of recipes! It should be more interesting to play even maps with simple goods now, or to build long pipelines.
I hope the maps are gone over with an eye to how they’re balanced with the new recipes. Going by the items, some maps just got a lot harder.
The better upgraded-forms really emphasize the pain of the current system of upgrade prices. L14 to L15 requires an astonishing amount of stuff. Since it’s so random what you get, you’ll probably have to dump a lot of stuff you’ll need later just to hold all the things for an L15.September 6, 2013 at 10:55 am #14905
I don’t have much of an opinion in either direction regarding having effectively gated your progression (since several maps are even more unlikely without upgrades now). That said, I am a bit concerned that the nature of recipe leveling now leads to the game decreasing in challenge over time rather than becoming more challenging. It was already something I thought might become an issue, but with even more recipes now following the “Simplify” progression path, it seems even more likely. Granted, it’s likely quite a ways down the road, just thought I’d mention it though.
I will also say that the prior build pushes us back in the direction of statues again, and the current build seems to do so even more. I’m haven’t played enough to see how the presumably revised values on the low tier recipes balances out, but generally speaking, as it gets to make standard recipes, the “stackable” ones end up becoming much more attractive.September 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm #14909
I also have concerns about the strength of recipe upgrades and the extent to which they make things easier over time. Using the previous Mr. Jones as an example, I found producing 6 pink flamingos to be a challenge for a group of skilled, dedicated players. If instead the task was to produce just 5 pink flamingos, then instead the map would be a straight-forward (and probably a bit tedious) exercise. Lastly, if instead the task was to produce 7 pink flamingos, the map would be impossible. If the new recipe upgrade path sticks, I can’t imagine how the map can be balanced to compensate. Reducing it to three pink flamingos would work for now, but then the map would lose the tension once heirs level up enough. By then new maps could be added, but Jones (and DuraDura, and Ye Dark Lorde, etc.) would become an awkward exercise to find a skilled-up heir to proceed. It feels hard enough to balance the game around the current population, let alone balance it around the various combinations of skill-levels that could happen in the future. New players that have trouble contributing to early maps now will eventually be blitzed by high-level players to a far greater degree.
On the other hand if upgrades are nerfed to the point of L30 not being unbalancing, then upgrades along the way will feel small and insignificant. I remember seeing some posts claiming that the upgrade system was too flat, because the exponential nature of the upgrades were not yet felt. It is difficult to imagine how the game can be balanced, while keeping skill upgrades interesting.September 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm #14913
And as something to think about in the game state right now, related to the named longterm concerns – right now, a lot of players get into the hard or expert game without actually being aware what they are getting into.
I routinely see players without trains in hard or expert games, for example, only to have them realize after a day or two that there is an extremely limited amount of useful things they can do in that state. This can lead to a number of different scenarios, most of which are unpleasant, painful or frustrating for everyone involved.
There’s also bound to be a wave of players again that try the Jones or Lorde as they get unlocked, only to realize after a week or more of futile sitting around in it that it’s completely impossible without some recipe upgrades (which doesn’t fit any description of “fun” I’m afraid).
It’s not a problem directly related to this update probably, though I’d imagine it will exacerbate it. It’s also even more insane now that we have to get hold of a fast train somehow to upgrade that four-stone-one-wood ore, for example.
Also see the last two paragraphs of q’s post here on the topic of upcoming players in the expert game:
In fact, the argument that thread has started to revolve around – experienced players not wanting to take the chance to play high level maps with people that have no idea what they are getting themselves into vs. the advertised multiplayer/coop spirit of the game – is kinda related as well.
I’d request reconsidering regular trains as a default item, or bumping up the visibility/accessibility of all maps from Twins upwards quite a few levels, for starters.
Regarding day one, I got my largely non-gamer sister to have a look a few days ago. We haven’t had a chance to talk about it in-depth yet, but from what I gathered, she was pretty intimidated by all the new rules to memorize etc. and thus hasn’t tried to play an actual game yet. Shorter tutorial sounds good in that less volume to digest may be less intimidating.September 6, 2013 at 5:51 pm #14918
Besides the obvious fact about many stages being horribly out of whack, and no way to avoid those stages, a big problem with the new system is that the items required for upgrades are randomly allotted. Fast Trains for Ore and Polished Gems, Catapults for Barrels, Duplexes for Lumber… How can beginners expect to ever get a major upgrade for these early items? How can skilled players? The old catch22 of needing fast trains to get the upgrades to beat MrJones who gives out fast trains… is even more true.
I don’t see why early game recipes don’t take things like rails, stout towers, slow trains, wood paths, recipes in the middle upgrade with elbow cranes, carousels, haulers, and hoppers, and harder recipes upgrade with fast rail, scarcity emblems, catapults, and duplexes. It’s the natural progression – complete the levels you need to finish those items for to make those items easier, and when they get easier, you can move on to tougher stages where those final goods are mere parts once more.September 6, 2013 at 11:18 pm #14920
The upgrade requirements for the first major upgrade on some of the lower tier shoppes will be reduced in a future push. Good point. :-)September 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm #14933
Great to hear Daniel, thanks for the news. My group was currently a bit frustrated at how difficult tier 1 goods were going to be to level, knowing that they’ll be adjusted to work off the easy map loot will surely do a lot to alleviate those concerns.September 8, 2013 at 12:44 am #14944
Sometime recently, shrines’ on-click got a menu to pick which good to look at. Thanks!September 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm #14955
I’d like to repeat a request somebody else made: Guaranteed drops should be listed in the selection box, so people don’t have to go hunting for the FAQ that shows where they can find a particular item.September 9, 2013 at 12:39 am #14958
Is there any estimate on when the readjustment to items needed for early major upgrades will go live? I have the stuff to upgrade Ore to level 5, but it currently needs a Catapult. I have one, but I wouldn’t want to use it and then a few days later find out it takes an Elbow Crane or something.
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