This topic contains 68 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by azuckuss 6 years, 2 months ago.
August 7, 2013 at 1:16 am #14011
According to LeapDayGoods.xml, skill points are always 1 per level.
How are you getting 84 golden goods for a Level 30? I have it at 79:
4*(1) for L1-4
1*(2+1) for L5
9*(2) for L6-14
1*(3+2) for L15
14*(3) for L16-29
1*(4+3) for L30
79 for L1-30August 7, 2013 at 3:55 am #14012
Tempus, I think you got it all wrong. First of all, the prices are how they are. Don’t be a crybaby because you lost your trains and tracks. Those were only a temporary toy to play with and now you are mad because you lost them. Only thing I agree with everyone is Wooden paths. Make those cheaper devs, like 200 or 300 crowns.
Your calculations about 1% chance of a chest generated from 4 factories is so random. Why? Because in general, you can’t calculate chances in cases like this. Only way to have you calculations close to the right answer is to have 100 or 200 days, and you did the calculation based on 1 day. Everyone that is into serious experiments(I have to do these in school) know that if you want results, you will have to measure every thing at least 10 times. And that is for simple things, like speed of chemical reactions, amount of chemical A needed to get chemical AB neutral, and so forth. I encourage you to follow 10 days of game, and write down how many chests you got each of those days(and write down how many factories you used, try not to change the layout over the day-24 hours). Than make some calculations, and than maybe, just maybe it will be worth looking at your results.
Now your idea of having 15 chests per day. That is way too much. I think getting between 5 and 10 is more than enough. Why is this? Well, everyone here currently have actually only 1 problem with the golden goods system: They don’t know what to do with their golden goods. Should they save? Should they start leveling something? So basically at the moment, all the “experienced” players, if you can call them that considering that major update was just recently, are taking things slowly because they need time to adapt. Same will be for those new players, probably even slower. What you want to do is to have 15 chests made of solid gold weighing 50 kilos flying in their faces while they are taking baby steps. Really smart. That’s like forcing a infant to hold their breath for 25 minutes, while running a marathon in that same time. Nonsense.
Getting chests at this rate is actually pretty perfect if you ask me. Inexperienced players will generally try to make less advanced goods, because they either think they can do better, or simply don’t have the level. But once you start leveling up, and you hit level 30, and that is when all the goods unlock if I’m correct, you will start building more advanced things. Advanced things mean more factories. More factories mean higher chest generation rate, thus enabling players to advance faster the higher level they are. Also, players that are level 100 are bound to experiment more, trying to make things(like armor) that maybe level 30’s are not even considering(note you have to take in consideration that there will be new players, and we here who are more or less experienced, will probably attempt to go for Black heart as soon as it unlocks). So what’s the point of this part? Chest generation speed is pretty good, and will probably need a bit tweaking with the part where you should be getting higher tier goods prior to lower if you are producing them(I’m not sure if I understood this right before).
Concerning the new vault for golden goods only. I must agree here. I’m very aware that Leap Day is a different game, but if you look at any other game, you will notice there are no items needed to raise your skills(you usually get skill points by leveling up, or by doing something). But in Leap day situation is such that you could say golden goods are your skill points, as you can’t use your real skill points without having golden goods. That means our skill points are taking our inventory. That is a bit insane if you ask me. Have a separate vault that will take in only golden goods(with some filters if possible, preferably 2) and inside of that inventory make a simple converter for Crowns. Simply you have a single slot, you place item in it, next to it it says how much crowns you get, and than you click a button to convert it into crowns(as I mentioned before it wouldn’t bring much, 1 or 2 crowns for simplest goods and up to 30 or maybe 40 for most complex ones).
The idea of having everyone who make something together have a chance of getting that good is not bad as well. This is how I imagine it: 3 players are trying to make a poison necklace. Final product thus is poison necklace. Player that is assembling the final product(not final product is actually any product that is being SOLD, yes sold, because no point in trading if there is no profit) has a normal chance of getting that golden chest while all the other players have 1/2 of that chance(note that this 1/2 is only for the final product). Of course, assembly goods(for poison necklace, it is cat statue, necklace, spirits and fruit cake+ all the goods those are made of) will be obtainable only by the players that are producing them. So if player A is making the poison necklace, he has 100% chance to get it(100% as in there is no multiplier on his chance, thus he has same chance as if he were making it himself, not 100% in sense he gets 1 golden poison necklace every hour for sure), while player B and C have 50% chance to get those goods. But B has 100% chance to get cat statue and necklace, since he made those parts on his part of territory, and C player has 100% chance of getting spirits and the fruit cake, since he made those items. So if we had a huge network of 7 players working on Black Heart, only 1 player(one who is assembling the Black heart) has normal chance of getting the Golden Black Heart(funny), while the rest 6 players get only half that chance and of course players that are making certain parts on their land have a chance of getting that golden part as well.
August 7, 2013 at 6:59 am #14015
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by fichom.
On the whole, I like the new system.
The shrines and curses are great. I’d like to see some more creative options here, like ones that affect torch light radius, or change the length of a leap day, or things like that.
I’d like the chests to be a little more deterministic, I think. I want to upgrade mana, so I need golden mulled wines as a second requirement. I just spent an entire game making nothing but mulled wines, but I got nothing but golden spirits for my troubles. Kind of frustrating. Now I’ll have to try this again before I can upgrade mana. I’d rather have a guaranteed golden drop after making a certain number of items.
Trains need to be basic items again. I’ll go so far as to say: it’s flat-out impossible to balance an expert-level map so that’s fun and challenging for both folks with rails, and folks without them. It’s just too big a difference in power.August 7, 2013 at 8:30 am #14020
@fichom It’s only a chance to get more chests, not a way to get specific chests. If I’m making 10 different goods, then I get a chance at the most expensive good first, then down the line. That doesn’t matter if I’m trying to upgrade that “most expensive good”. The chance of getting that most expensive good doesn’t go up if I produce more of it, produce less of something else, and then it even goes down if I go on to produce something more expensive needed to complete the map, as I have a chance of getting a “successful roll” on something else first. It’s just too random
@Tempus, “intermediate currency junk” is needed for legal reasons. You’re buying a currency. Say there’s an item in game that does “something awesome”. So you buy it with your real money. Well, then the devs determine that “something awesome” is indeed too awesome so they change it to “something worthwhile”. But you bought “something awesome” with your real money, now you have grounds to demand a refund because you didn’t buy “something worthwhile”, you bought “something awesome”. But with crowns, you’re only paying for crowns. The essence of crowns never changed and you can’t demand a refund.
Obviously I’m no legal expert, but that’s how I’ve come to understand it.
@dan if most people that play will spend no money, a few people will spend ~$20, and an even tinier amount will spend more, what’s the point of having so many buildings available to buy? With that response, it sounds like you expect no one to have all the buildings. Which I guess is valid if you’re balancing around not everything being available each map. But it seems odd to me that you don’t want/expect people to buy everything. I could probably persuade myself to spend ~$40 if I knew it would get me all the buildings, but since they cost so much more than that, I’m liable to not spend any ’cause I’m more of an “all or nothing” kinda guy. I don’t know the consumer mindset so I have no idea if others think the same as me. I may be a corner case, I may be the majority, I have no idea.
Even with that, I could seem myself spending more in the future if new interesting building objects come out (a couple ideas would be train/road bridges to cross the other kind of track/road, or a switch for a track/road that you can place on a ‘T’ and every other flan/train would turn the opposite direction).August 7, 2013 at 8:54 am #14021
@azuckuss I disagree with you statement about the rails. No, it is no needed. I’m doing pretty fine with only stone path(so yeah, I don’t have unlimited anything), and with my planning I get even bigger profits than my neighbors that have both wood paths, tracks, trains and duplex houses. Though you could look at my current game and say “Nonsense, you have 2x less profit than the best guy, who is using tracks and trains”. Well the only reason he has 2x profit is because he had good positioning and got a bit luck, and he is trading 9x stone rings in total. But for example, my other neighbor has 30% less profit, and he is using as well trains, wooden paths and duplex homes. And yes, he built his setup a bit earlier than me, but I had less profit until that, so in the end, with approximately same gold i got 600 more profit than him, even without any premium items(I’m not even using those 1 use items at the moment).
@claudekennilol yes I’m aware of that, and this is what has been bothering me, because I’m pretty sure that devs said that it is more likely to get higher tier goods, but I yet wait for this to be confirmed.
So some(like azuckuss) proposed more “regular” intervals between goods, so here is my suggestion: Make golden goods still spawn at the random rate they do now, but also make “Gold good meter” which would basically be a counter for all the goods you are currently producing in that game. Low tier goods would of course have bigger need of items produced(for example 500), and those harder to get goods would have lover needs(like 100 or 150). This way players will get some more reliability, but there will still be that chance factor. Also it would be nice that a chance of golden chest to spawn rises as you level up that certain good(for example, if Oak level 0 has 10% chance, than level 5 could have 15% chance, while level 30 would have around 40% chance(at this level, you don’t really need oak to level up oak, but you need it for other goods, so it is natural in my eyes to get it more often). This scaling chance will also encourage players to level up goods at the start, because i think you can level up all the basic goods(perfume, spirits, lumber, oak, bricks, barrels, bread, ore, polished gems and spices) to level 5 and still have your favorite build on level 30.August 7, 2013 at 10:05 am #14023
@fichom – I’m not really worried about income. Some people will have more income than others, even without special items. Sometimes you start in an area with a mix of resources, open space, and available gems. Sometimes you start in waterworld. That’s just how it is. You roll with it and contribute the best you can.
To give an example of my point, a common task is to gather gems from a wide area, and bring them together in once place, say for a hammer or arm party. Roads just aren’t going to cut it in the same way that rails do — it’s a long distance to hop, and it could be well after midday before you even get the ingredients together. Now your timing is shot. OK, but still, maybe a clever fellow like yourself could collaborate with your teammates and find a workable solution, with flans hopping all over creation to bring things together just in the nick of time. On the other hand, a different group, on the same map, using rails, would find this very easy to accomplish, and wouldn’t be challenged.
To put it another way, if a map is challenging for roadies, it will be boring for trackies, and if it’s challenging for trackies, it will be impossible for roadies. By making tracks a premium item, they’ve severely limited how they can balance maps to be fun and challenging for all players. It has nothing to do than who’s making more income than who — this game isn’t a competition!
PS Support the game! Buy some crowns! :-)August 7, 2013 at 12:31 pm #14036
You’ll likely see some changes to golden good drop rates next week when folks get back from vacation. :-) Tweak, tweak, tweak.
August 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm #14092
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Daniel.
On the topic of chests, can you add a god-ray to them? Not sure if you’re going for a ‘find the Easter eggs’ mechanic, but if you’re not, a god-ray would help a lot.August 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm #14093
I’d rather have them just be collected automatically, or appear on the HUD and click to open.August 8, 2013 at 12:54 pm #14094
Well I’d rather keep collecting them manually on the map. It’s too bad, isn’t it, that we’ll never all be happy.August 8, 2013 at 1:06 pm #14096
Got to agree with Silverthorn on both points. Just make chest a bit easier to notice.August 8, 2013 at 1:31 pm #14097
@fichom and @azuckuss I have to agree with azuckuss that some of the harder maps are impossible without a few players having rail. I’ve been fortunate that some of the players in my maps have had rail, otherwise I wouldn’t know how we would have beat it. One of the more recent maps I did required the map to make 40 rings and combine it several times to a writ of seduction. Even with a giant rail network across multiple players, we needed to get the shrine for 20% longer days to complete the writ. Income is never an issue as smart trading will help bring everyone up to a reasonable income level.
I’ve been personally saving my rail loot drops for these harder maps. Also, I would trade in most of my loot items for more rail items. I prefer that over all the other loot types. Additionally, I’d gladly pay 1 million gold in a game to get to use basic rail for that game. Make it not cost effective, but possible to use the specialty items that are potentially necessary for the harder maps.August 8, 2013 at 10:56 pm #14117
“I’d gladly pay 1 million gold in a game to get to use basic rail for that game.”
Maybe they could design that into a shrine?
“Bring this shrine 4 Fire Bread, and all players shall have access to Rail and Train Stations.”
(Okay, that’s too easy. Maybe two different statues?)August 9, 2013 at 12:47 pm #14134
I am finding in all the maps I have played that things are unbalanced. In each game 2 possibly 3, take all the alters. This is because they are much better with starting income. This is not a knoce to them, I learn from them, but the game is over before the other 5 or people have the time to make gold to expand that far. It also seems that I am playing with the exact same people every game. I believe that is probably because there are only 2 maps available to us and they must be filled completely before another opened. So those who finish the map together have, for the most part, the same 2 maps to choose from. It would actually be a little more fair if we got to go back to choosing between 5 or 6 maps. that would mix the teams up some.August 9, 2013 at 1:13 pm #14136
Hello, I’m gonna apologize straight out. I am one of those people: I’ve very often cleared solo or with a single other person all the maps I enter. I’m always aiming, and nearly always achieve, the five star ratings. That’s my goal going into the map – aiming for as quick and elegant a clear as I can.
Not everyone has the same goals. I recently joined a game where some fellows had taken on ye Dark Lorde. They’ve been in the game for five days or so, with incomes above 25k, one person at 50k. Excluding the gems, any single one of them should be able to solo the map at this point. They all have catapults and trains of various types, and from the dialogue, they all have second princes. I’m not entirely certain what their goal is in this level, but they seem to be having fun, so it’s fine.
I certainly would like to see more variety in maps, and more choice available for new games. I’d like to see co-op maps where me and my Leap Day friend Garmichael can tackle some challenging things, side by side, two players only. Or smaller four player games. I’d like to see more game labels than ‘Medium’ and ‘Expert’. Let’s have a gamut of descriptions so that people can self-segregate themselves according to their tastes. I’d like to see more maps in general – the maps are not complex to make, you should be able to bang out 4-5 new ones in an hour for us. Disco Queen was great with it’s interesting conditions – I’d like to see a few more spin off ones like that from the traditional setup as well. You could even label them differently like with remix “Expert Remix”, “Advanced Remix”, “Easy Remix” so that people can see at a glance what they’d like to join.
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